The disagreement: should the Parthenon marbles be given back to Greece?

In discussing the issue of whether the Parthenon marbles should be returned to Greece – where the Acropolis Museum, designed by the Swiss-American architect Bernard Tschumi, has already been built to house them – Trevor Phillips and Michael Dobbs consider what the sculptures mean to Britain and Greece. They also look at the British Museum Act 1963, which prevents them from simply being handed back.

What does the idea of “authenticity” mean in the context of the Parthenon marbles, which are so central to British, Greek and worldwide cultural heritage? Phillips is in favour of keeping the sculptures in Britain, where they have been since the first years of the 19th ­century. Dobbs argues for their return to Greece – a formal request for the permanent return to Greece of all the Parthenon sculptures in the British Museum’s collection was first made in 1983.

Phillips All of these judgments, about where the Parthenon marbles should be, have to be made against some sort of yardstick: it’s not entirely clear to me that people are always arguing about the same thing. I wouldn’t mind a minute or two on why we think it matters, and to whom it matters.

Dobbs What I’m interested in is the future – not stale and totally unproductive ­arguments about the past. You have to make these issues relevant to a new ­audience in exciting ways. The reason we should care is because it is so important.

Phillips I think some of the argument is often an elitist one. The same thing is true about reparations for slavery to the Caribbean. If you ask somebody in the street in Athens or in Kingston, Jamaica about ­reparations, or the return of the Parthenon marbles, that’s not going to be the first thing they’re that interested in. They’re going to want to talk to you about the new Tom Cruise movie, or about the cost of living.  One of my old school friends is now the deputy chairman of the Caribbean reparations commission, and though he treats it very seriously, I’m absolutely convinced he just likes to see the Foreign Office tie itself in knots.

Dobbs Trevor, I would not be in favour of returning the marbles if it were perceived as being just another beating up of Britain. It is ­certainly not a precedent for the ­ransacking of our museums. It is about ­creating an artistic and cultural ­partnership that would be almost unique – but could be repeated elsewhere. And although you say the Greeks aren’t passionate about this, I found many Greeks who are, because this is part of their cultural heritage. This ­conversation should be part of a much wider cultural programme, an Anglo-Hellenic partnership, which could bring benefits to everyone.

Phillips Broadly speaking, I’m against return for two reasons. First, I don’t like institutions ­cowering because some people have been shouting at them and waving ­placards. That’s my emotional reaction. But the real issue is: who gets to decide about this? The British Museum Act of 1963 prevents the museum from permanently disposing of items from its collection. Now, I think that act came into being for the wrong reasons. But one of its consequences is that before somebody at the museum makes a decision, it has to be really carefully thought about. That I think is important. But is it more likely that a person of Greek heritage is going to see the marbles in Athens or in London? I think there’s a reasonable chance they’d be more likely to see them in London, especially if you include the Greek diaspora.